Unlocking Creativity and Healing Through Writing with Frankie Rollins

Welcome to the Great Things LLC Podcast, where we celebrate individuals making an impact through conscious business practices aligned with personal values. Hosted by Josh Meeder, this show features visionaries who have found their purpose and created joy and abundance while helping others. Whether you're an established trailblazer or still seeking your path, these stories will inspire you to be the best version of yourself.

In this episode, Josh Meeder interviews the multifaceted Frankie Rollins, a former academic turned author, writing coach, and entrepreneur. Frankie shares her journey from teaching at a community college to founding the Fifth Brain Creative Collective. Her passion for helping others through writing and creativity shines through as she discusses the transformative power of storytelling and self-expression.

Introduction to Frankie Rollins

 Frankie has authored several books, including "The Greek Madness Manuscript," "Running Wild," "The Sin Eater and Other Stories," and her latest work, "Do You Feel Like Writing? A Creative Guide to Artistic Confidence."

The Pandemic as a Catalyst for Change

Frankie reflects on her life in Tucson, Arizona, during the early days of the pandemic. She shares the profound impact of teaching creative writing online while coping with personal loss and isolation. These experiences led her to reevaluate her career and ultimately leave academia to start her own business.

The Birth of Fifth Brain Creative Collective

Discover how Frankie’s experiences during the pandemic inspired her to create the Fifth Brain Creative Collective, a business focused on supporting people in their creative writing journeys. She discusses the significance of collaboration, conversation, and weekly support in fostering creativity and healing.

Overcoming Fear and Embracing Creativity

Frankie addresses the common fears and obstacles aspiring writers face, such as impostor syndrome and the fear of being selfish. She emphasizes the importance of giving oneself permission to write and the therapeutic benefits of creative expression.

Success Stories from the Fifth Brain Creative Collective

Hear inspiring stories of Frankie’s clients who have overcome significant personal challenges through writing. From a trauma survivor writing her first sophisticated essay to an agoraphobic client who published a short story nationally, Frankie illustrates the profound impact of creative coaching.

The Importance of Process Over Outcome

Josh and Frankie discuss the value of focusing on the creative process rather than the outcome. They highlight how perfectionism can stifle creativity and stress the importance of embracing the journey of self-discovery and growth.

Writing as a Tool for Healing

Frankie shares her belief that writing is a powerful tool for healing and self-awareness. She encourages listeners to explore their experiences and emotions through writing, emphasizing that the act of creating can lead to profound personal transformation.

Practical Tips for Aspiring Writers

Frankie offers practical advice for those interested in writing, including starting with simple prompts, embracing the learning process, and finding delight in creative expression. She also discusses the role of writing in processing difficult emotions and experiences.

What’s Next for Frankie and Fifth Brain Creative Collective

Learn about Frankie’s plans for expanding her business, including new membership packages and classes tailored to different levels of writing experience. She also shares her personal writing projects and the joy of creating while running a business.

Final Thoughts

Frankie's heartfelt message encourages listeners to move forward authentically and give themselves permission to be creative. 

Transcript

Josh Meeder: 0:00

Welcome to the great things LLC podcast, the show that celebrates people who are making an impact on the world, people creating conscious businesses that are in alignment with their own personal values. Each episode shares the wisdom experience and the intentions of those that are following their dreams. visionaries who have chosen a different path, found their purpose, and create joy and abundance while helping others. Whether you're already a trailblazer, we're still searching for your path. The stories will inspire you towards being the best version of yourself. Welcome to the great things, LLC podcast. I'm your host, Josh Meeder. And today I am excited to introduce Frankie roelens. Frankie has a lot of things behind her names, but she is you know, formerly a from academia in college professorship, she is an author, she is a writing coach, he is an entrepreneur, and just really enjoyed getting to meet Frankie. So let's jump right into this. And Frankie, welcome to the show. Thank you so

Frankie Rollins: 1:02

much for having me. I'm excited to talk to you today.

Josh Meeder: 1:05

Yeah, so you and I met actually on a workshop of all things on different different platform about marketing, but didn't feel the connection there. And I'm really glad we were able to get together and kind of share, share your story. Now, like I said, you've you've been an author, author, and academic, you have, you know, just a couple of books to name those. There's the Greek madness manuscript running wild, the sin eater and other stories and your most recent one, which we'll get to is, do you feel like writing a creative guide to on or too artistic? Do you feel like writing a creative guide to artistic competence? So let's I guess to start this story, we have to rewind the world clock a little bit, too, we'll go back before the pandemic. So, right What did you just kind of start with where you were, and how that how this whole fifth brain Creative Collective, your business came into focus? They're great,

Frankie Rollins: 2:10

I'd love to rewind the world's clock, I actually look at time from every direction as as a life force. So I am in in the beginning of 2020, I am living in Tucson, Arizona, I teaching at a community college, I'm teaching five classes in creative writing and honors, and the pandemic hits. And I've been divorced. I've been divorced a few years, and I'm starting to come out of my shell, my, my shell shocked divorce state. And so I, I'm thinking that my life is opening up, and then my cat dies, and then the pandemic strikes. And what happened then I lived across the street from a hospital. So the first summer, it is helicopters overhead day and night, there's no escaping the reality. And simultaneously, my house is kind of isolated. I have a neighbor, and but it's hot. It's hot, hot, hot, it's such a hot summer 9pm. At night, it's still 110 degrees. And so that so it's very hard to communicate with people, even 12 feet apart. We have done bowls of ice water for our feet. It's a it's a dark moment, and my computer. So I looked I moved to teaching fully online, and my computer is full of the creative writing of people in pain, because everybody's in pain, right? The whole world was in pain. And so it was just just a daily dose of massive pain. That was even the writing that they were doing at so many people writing for the first time of assaults that they'd lived through or abuse that they'd lived through. And at this end, I'm single. And so there's a lot of just a lot of hardcore solid, you know, 730 In the evening, or like, no, really so many more hours to entertain myself. And during this time, also my neighbor died because he was afraid to go across the street to the hospital. He had a heart condition, but he was so terrified of getting COVID that he So it's that kind of COVID victim. And I was texting him urging, urging him to go to the hospital and finally called an ambulance. And I was writing I'm encouraging notes and he died in them. And then I saw people chopping down his door. You know, it's just a little too much of everything. Yeah,

Josh Meeder: 4:43

I mean, going back there not that anyone really chooses to go back there. But during that time, you're right. It was such a unprecedent time and the Alien Nation in the separation where literally the only human contact you had was what you brought in through your computer. And you had to watch that or your devices, because, you know, it was apocalyptic from the news cycle. And then it was fear based from everyone else, because there was so much unknown. So you're right. So you're in, in academia and teaching and your students are feeling all of this plus, plus just the general anxiety of the younger generation. So you were seeing a lot of the pain and the suffering that were people were coming, coming with. So how was that? Because it's one thing to to be the teacher or to, you know, to be the instructor. But that's still has to hit and weasel through your soul whether you have some protection up or not.

Frankie Rollins: 5:41

Oh, yes. And there's no, I mean, really, there's no protection, because we were all so frightened and alarmed by it. I had, I actually had a feeling or I had constantly had this elevator that wouldn't hit bottom. But the other thing that was really interesting for me as a teacher is I thought, you know, you could see the lives of young people changing. I mean, we never went to school on Zoom, and in a pandemic, right. And so I couldn't shake the feeling that we were suddenly teaching the wrong things. I mean, not in writing, writing will always be what it is. But in other elements of school, I was like, How can we possibly be teaching the right thing for a whole generation of children, that is having an experience we know nothing about, as their elders, we're almost destined to fail them. And that part of that, that was part of why I decided to leave academia, because academia is such a rigid structure, it can't flex and bend for the future, necessarily, it takes, you know, years to make change. And I, I also, you know, seeing the Zoom manifest in our lives, just this, this wasn't a thing in our lives, you know, with Skype, or FaceTime, but not not this full life. And I realized that the time that I needed to take my work with writers was creative writers, and to take it out of that out of the institution into a more flexible realm where I could really speak to what people would need after the pandemic, because I changed so much in that time period. I knew I'm just one other human, I knew that other people were manifesting massive changes in themselves, that they might not even be able to articulate. You know, and for a long time, I still don't think we know, you know, what has changed inside of us?

Josh Meeder: 7:38

It is and you know, one of the things I just heard you say that I really liked and resonated with was that we are teaching the students in this case, the wrong things in academia, they were teaching format, and it's XYZ. It's formulaic. But in our conversations was actually what is needed in the teaching, whether it be through creative writing, or even from my standpoint, and conscious business consulting is the stuff that is geared more towards healing the self healing the community healing the planet, where the efforts that we put in are a force for good and for healing. Yeah. So you saw that coming up. And so let's go down that path on okay. Now, you've seen the suffering, but there's something you actually want to do with

Frankie Rollins: 8:24

it. Yes. So I had, I've been in a writing group of these two other people, Sandra Shattuck and Eric Aldrich for many years, and we had created such a world where our writing would flourish in, in, in community in conversation. And I've realized through that, and through my teaching, the conversation and support is the essence of helping each other be creative. And the creativity absolutely heals the soul of just bands down, it does, it's an amazing tool for that. And so we had been talking about it. And I thought that's, that is the, that's where I'm, that's what I'm going to pursue in my life is helping people through one on one coaching through conversation, having a membership, having classes outside of academia, where the love of the experience of living is part of is the actual material that we're working with there, whether they're reading nonfiction or fiction, just learning how to translate your human experience into this art form, and then learning from it. Yeah, it's incredible. And

Josh Meeder: 9:35

I love following the passion that you have to see in others. What I love to see is the passion that you had. So there's a choice point that you had in that. Was there a was there a clarity? Was there a moment when you're like, I am done? I can no longer like I just can't stay here. I have to move forward and what was that? That decision point for you to take that leap and get started in a new business?

Frankie Rollins: 9:59

Yeah, it's So interesting, I really had a moment where I, I was so far from delight, it was so hard to find delight. And I remembered, I knew somewhere inside myself because I have a theory called the fifth brain where we're up, there's a part of our brain, always working on our behalf, always gathering information. And I realized that whenever I would go to Fort Collins, Colorado, where my sister and her family lived, that I felt the closest thing to delight that I had left. And so I realized I had to move there. And then my, my institution wouldn't allow me to keep my job to do that. So I was like, great, I need to be cut off from those golden handcuffs anyways, because I want to, I mean, we'll also this is the other thing about the pandemic, I was like, Oh, we have no guarantees, what do I want to spend the rest of my life doing? You know, I'm in the middle of my life, I am not wasting another second on a meaningless meeting. That is not what I'm doing with my life. And so I decided to launch my fifth brain collected, because I also believe, sort of, as you gesture that earlier, that the more people have access to their to their true thoughts, their authentic selves, their creativity, the more solutions that they'll be able to come up with, for the problems that we have, right now we have such a serious set of problems. And we need people to be so creative, and to be so in touch with themselves so that they're better community members, they're happier humans, they know how to work collaboratively. And so that's sort of the essence of what I was trying to do.

Josh Meeder: 11:43

Well, we do need more of that. Both the ability to creatively express one selves and the ability to openly receive it without without reaction. So lots going on there. And the so the fifth brain collective, let's, let's go to the genesis of that. Now. You've made the call, you've you've ended the security of the job, and you're making these transitions. You just dove in, you took a course? How did how did this come about?

Frankie Rollins: 12:16

That is so it is I did it the hard way I do everything the hard way, that's kind of how I learned. I first learned on a manual car. And I still drive one because I don't know why. But um, I just left in, you know what the thing is, my fifth brain knew that what I am here on earth to do is to support people in their creative writing, I just, I just have always known that. And so I just kind of thought, You know what, the world is good. No guarantees, I'm just gonna go with Plan A, and pretend there's no possibility of a plan B. And so I took a class in Business and Marketing and Entrepreneurship. And I've been taking them really for a year. It's been a year since I started this. And I started on the same day I launched I self published a book do you feel like writing and I, I opened a set of classes and started my online coaching, one on one coaching, all at the same time, like a total mania. You so but I also would, the wonderful thing about that was I made so many mistakes. But I learned again and again, that that's not the point, perfectionism is not the goal. And that being out there with my loving radiant message, truly, I just really care about the units, that that is what really matters here. And

Josh Meeder: 13:41

is and thank you for sharing that because that is actually something that you've just you've nailed in the description. And I'll just use the replay because it was perfectly said. But when people ask about starting business, that's what we do hear great things. And, and it's the same thing. There's the fear, there's the anxiety, and the way to really do it is just to do it and learn and, and the perfectionism is the greatest killer of any success out there. So I know we're going to dive into those topics in a little bit, because I'm sure that does come up for the students. You know, and so now you've had all this experience of helping students right, so you've seen for 1015 years, the block the blocks and the challenges and all the things so it's not new to you as to what's doing. Let's talk about those first couple of students and that first, you know, those first wave coming in and and currently How is your operation and your businesses going now and how do you work with students? What are you seeing out there that they are succeeding with and are really challenged with?

Frankie Rollins: 14:49

One of the things that's been so incredible is watching. I mean, I have a student who had never written before she she actually was looking for a colon nary class at my former college. And someone said, actually, it sounds like you've a big story. It's a very dark, difficult story she's telling, and they send her to me. And she was deep in trauma when I met her. And I just said, Let's just try writing. Let me just give you some prompts. You know, let me just work through this with you. And now spinning, you know, a year and some months later, this person is writing a very sophisticated braided essay that has three parts of factual part of fictional part, and then a creative nonfiction fiction part from her story. And she is she is healing herself, she is giving herself a voice in a story where she had no voice. And it is the most astonishing thing to watch her. We also in another client, who had been working with, for multiple years, actually a student, former student of mine, who followed me into the fifth brain collective, and he just published his first piece of writing nationally, after being agoraphobic for eight years living at one point in his life, he lived in a room basically stayed in his room for eight years. And he just published his first short story in a national magazine. And it's so you know, it's just, it's really, they are also releasing the perfectionism, because what we do is we talk about, we just talk about what we want to say and how to best say it, and we forget about gatekeepers. We forget we don't let other editors be in the room with us. We just we allow and honor our own ideas first. And the the results are just profound. I mean, those are two Supreme examples. But there are just so many people writing and writing and freedom, without the sense of some ogre over them ready to condemn them as good or bad. That's not what we're looking for. We're looking for them to find their voices. You know, it's so exciting. It's just thrilling, and to be able to bear witness to these births that they're creating for themselves. is a such a privilege.

Josh Meeder: 17:10

Yeah, the, the permission, we've talked to some things you and I on on permissioning. And allowing people to have that freedom to to explore to fail, or to learn about themselves and allow like the healing happens to just come out naturally, because you're removing those blocks. What are what are some of the impediments that you're seeing that people as they're coming in our brain that are common?

Frankie Rollins: 17:36

Oh, it's always fear. It's fear, different kinds of fear. You know, impostor syndrome, how can I possibly be a writer, I mean, people genuinely don't understand that what it is to be a writer is to just write and take it seriously think that it matters, you know, and so that imposter syndrome is pretty severe, and also a fear of being selfish. Why do I have the right to spend my time in my brain thinking, they don't understand what a boon that is to the rest of us. If they do that, the more people think the more they understand, the more they can reflect, the more they can see the world, you know, from a clearer perspective, that is not necessarily biased in some, you know, institutionalized way. And they have their own, they get to have their own opinion. And so that selfishness is a really hard nut to crack. And mostly, I think that one is easiest to crack just by modeling. I mean, I just constantly point to these bookshelves. And I'm like, do you think somebody gave all these people permission to write? Like, did somebody tell David Bowie, it's okay. Go ahead and write a song about red shoes. Yeah. I mean, I just we forget that these are ort that are heroes in in different kinds of writing both musical or you know, literary or television wise movies, films. That it's, it's that they just chose to do it. They wanted to write something. They had an idea. And they just had enough courage or permission for themselves to write it. Yeah,

Josh Meeder: 19:21

yeah, the true greats never created for the commercial success the true greats created, because it had they had to get it outside of

Frankie Rollins: 19:31

ourselves. There was something they had to say.

Josh Meeder: 19:34

And the selfishness, just interesting correlations and crossover because that is pretty pervasive. You know, we're, we're taught here to be humble and to be charitable, and all we should be but the the selfishness like to actually it's really self enrichment or self care. It is so demonized, like, Oh, you're being selfish but people have to understand is like, unless you're full yourself you can You can't support and you can't give in fullness to others. So it's interesting to see the crossovers that you have from from a writing perspective, and the same things ring true with those starting in on the entrepreneurial side. So you've kind of gotten both both wrapped up there. Then the book that does talk just a little bit about like the Do you feel like writing so that that's coming out there? And is that a core part of your class? Or is there just one of those things that had to get out?

Frankie Rollins: 20:33

It is, it's a core part, you know, I will say writing this book changed writing, every book that I write changes me as a human being, but this book was really, I was, because I actually have been teaching for 25 years, I have my own little class of classes for nine years, and I was a teaching artist in the schools in creative writing for years. But, um, so it was gathering the essences that I knew were true. And what I did in this book is, there's a lot of my own story as a writer there because I one of the things I'm, I'm famous for, in my friends circles is that I always write no matter what I doesn't matter how hard my life is how many jobs I have, or whatever I find time to write, because it is such an essential part of me. So I use stories from that to illustrate moments of turning in my life. And, but it's I talk about things like, you know, honoring your knowledge banks, that each of us has a set of knowledge banks, that we've been gathering our whole lives, and using those in your writing, so you're never actually coming to a blank page. And, um, but the book also has over 100 prompts in it. So it's really meant to just let people start anywhere, and just do some writing, you know, and I remind them constantly in the book, that, that they have the choice to do this, that it's totally up to them, and they have permission. And it's it's, it's what sits on the shelf, it really people find it. And then they they write to me, and they're like, I really needed this book, because it's not I mean, I just was looking at an old textbook that I had, I mean, not a textbook, but an old book I had, I'm not even saying the names, I don't want people to go get it. And this, you know, some of the advice in it. It's so pejorative, I mean, it's so it's marks people for different choices are making. And that is what I'm like, That is not the way to teach, that is not the way for us to go forward. You know,

Josh Meeder: 22:35

for those sitting out there that right now do not realize that they are a writer, but they have a story, or they have an idea that's percolating. How do you reach those people? And what should they be considering?

Frankie Rollins: 22:50

Yeah, I have like, I have a free console always. And I almost get everything I know from that conversation, everything I need to know. For example, people will sometimes I'll just say, Do you have some chapters in mind? And often they'll be like, Yeah, I do. And I'll just say, well write that list down, and then put a sentence underneath for each one. Or do you know something you want to say about life or experience, just, you know, write that idea down. And then think about a story from your life that might exemplify that. I also, I'm just one of my I'm working on a collection of fairy tales right now. And one of the it's it's called the empty house fairy tales for disappointed women. And I turn moments of disappointment to my from my own life into fairy tales where the women might morph into a wolf, or one woman is so angry, and she can't deal with and she can't talk about it. And she just blasts apart, she's still alive, but her arms over there and a legs over. But it's It's morphing your experience into a fictional tale can be really helpful to see it. Or even just writing down literally what happened to you, you can help you learn more see more, and it's an offering. I mean, we need each other's experiences to know how to live our lives. I

Josh Meeder: 24:15

think one of the key points in there is, is the process, not the outcome. Like when when people are thinking about starting a business starting a book, if you can focus on the process and the healing from it, not the outcome, is that the same in your world because the outcome puts an unnecessary unrealistic pressure that you're trying to get to. And I think it pulls you out of the process to get there. Exactly,

Frankie Rollins: 24:42

exactly. There's a lot of writing. Gathering. There's a lot of writing businesses now that promise, write the book and publish the book, but I'm always like, why are we letting the publishers in the room of creation at all? That like how do you how do you speak What's in your own mero if you're worried about a bunch of strangers who might or might not like your work, you know, you can't, you have to go more deeply inside to know what you're saying. And, I mean, of course, there are certain writers who you know, they're like a mystery writer who's reading a whole series that all have sort of the same premise or something that's sort of different. But if you're trying to write something that you need to say in the world, then you have to be able to dig inside. And it's so important to just pay attention to that, and love it, allow yourself to love it. The other thing is, we turned everything into work, right? It's like productivity, must, we must sit in our chair and check off our list. And that is an inappropriate approach to creativity. Because the fifth brain has its I mean, it's an organic creature coming from this organic creature. So it's gonna have its own, you know, highs and lows and cyclical nature, times when it needs to rest times when it's pouring ideas forth. And so learning to be patient with that is such an element of the work. Yeah,

Josh Meeder: 26:11

yeah. Not to take that in play. Not not necessarily devil's advocate, but to challenge it from the other side, right? Because there is the freedom and the creativity and the flow lists state the flow state and lack of boundaries or, or, or the hard regimen. But there's also the place of effort versus like hoping for manifestation and actually directing. So how do you pull the the balance of keeping it in a natural flow state for the creative process, but also there is the the component of, of effort and, and challenge? Yes,

Frankie Rollins: 26:51

keep it Yes, trying when it gets hard, because it does get difficult. I mean, there is a moment when an a friend and I, you know, just talk about is your button your chair, like you have because also writing you have to generally sit be sitting down doing it. And so there is that element, like the idea is amazing, the idea can be so sparkly and exciting. And then you have to follow through. And part of the thing, part of the thing I've seen because I've met some people who were pouring out novels, but they didn't necessarily know craft technique. And now as their landing craft technique is slowing down their work. And they're finding that, here's how you get the work done. The reason why you can get the work done is because you are learning so much as you're doing it. It's not just for the product, it's for your own development as a human being to where like you don't even mean to when you start out, but it happens. And I think that the love of that the curiosity of that is what can help drive that drives the work the work there. And I do I mean, obviously, there's also a point where it has to be polished and crafted and, and I just always say there are a million people out there ready to like, nip and bite and help you with that. They're all there, there's plenty of them, there's fewer of us,

Josh Meeder: 28:16

there's never a shortage of critics out there, they always give us their constructive advice at the end,

Frankie Rollins: 28:24

you could go find them, they're there.

Josh Meeder: 28:27

Like I always say, you can get on my train, or you can get run over it doesn't matter to me, just leave those people under the tracks back there. Looking forward, what is on the horizon for you. And for fifth brain collective.

Frankie Rollins: 28:42

That is something that I'm obsessed with right now. Because it's been the first year as I said, I've made a lot of mistakes. And now I'm learning now i and there were mistakes, I could never have known how to I had to make them to know them, or I had to do the thing to even understand. So I'm sort of reshaping I had a lot of poetic titles for my classes, which was a mistake because people don't know what they are. So that was something I learned so I'm doing some reshaping of it. But it's an I'm creating a new I have a membership where those people are writing and writing and supporting each other. I'm creating a new one of those. And it's it's really it's expanding a little bit is is what what is next but it's still it's just now that I know when I've proven my concept that conversation collaboration and weekly support with other people is what we need to get our creative writing done. Now I'm I'm creating things in the fifth brain collective that are really meant to promote that in this in this world. So that's, that's the work there. And I mean, here's the other key that is amazing about this is that I myself am writing I'm working on three stories now and a new novel while I'm running this business, right? It's it's like, if you're doing the thing that you most love to do, other things start to fall into that that like aura that you've created. And it's profound. It is,

Josh Meeder: 30:14

I think, on the flip side of that, when you're not working in your passion or in your flow, it is hard just to get four things checked off your checklist, because it's a grind to get through.

Frankie Rollins: 30:22

Right? Yes, it's all work. It's all productivity. Yep.

Josh Meeder: 30:27

Now the those who are interested in working with you, where are they at? in their writing, writing experience? Are they first time writers? Is there a general is it all across the board? What does someone who will be working with you look like?

Frankie Rollins: 30:43

I am right now I'm creating new packages, I was coaching hour by hour, but then I've realized, like, people need my expertise to guide them. So if they're totally new, and just ready, just have an idea, then I'll work with them on Zoom, where we talk about their idea. And then I'll send them some prompts tailored to what they're looking for, then maybe their advance, maybe they have a chapter or a story, something done. And they want me to read that and give them feedback and talk about how to move forward. Also give them props for that. But then I also have people who've written a whole book, and want the whole book review they want, they want someone else to have it in their heart and brain. And so I'll read that for them. They'll give me a list of questions, things they're worried about. And then I respond to that. And I also just show them what their book looks like, what the symbols are, what the themes are, what the where the gaps are. So each one of those is sort of a different level. But but because my goal is getting everyone who is the tiniest bit interested in writing, writing, I have something for each different sort of level they're on.

Josh Meeder: 31:48

Okay, so that's pretty clear to anyone from anyone who has an idea and a desire or a curiosity to someone who's already completed a book and looking for some some review. So while we're in different industries, we do have a common style, or at least the common I feel like most heart centered approach and, and while I'm working on creating businesses, in your reading on creating our books, the deeper work is healing hearts and minds and in the people that we're working with, in those people that they affect. So from, from the healing, almost the esoteric experience of what you're creating, how do you see that? How does that fill your world and come out through your work? I

Frankie Rollins: 32:33

love that. I love that idea. I love thinking about that idea. And I think it is becoming a whole being part of what creative writing and creativity do as they give you an opportunity to really understand who you are, what you've been through where you've been, what it doesn't even matter what genre you're working in. Because everything that you do, informs the language that you choose the style that you're writing in. And in that wholeness, it's like we're walking around, a lot of us are walking around with big chunks missing, you know, or things we don't understand, like big mysterious worlds that we're like, I don't even know what that world is in my brain, but it's there. But becoming more aware of who you are and what you've been through. And owning it. That's the part about writing that really helps us it allows people to own it, this is my story. I'm writing it down, I am the one, putting it here into the world sharing it with the world. And there's something so profound in that ownership. And that that self acknowledgement that that creates a powerful like then then we're dealing with the whole being, you know, we're not dealing with someone who has has all these terrible or difficult moments in their life just still raging and influencing things they do, you're instead working with somebody who, who who can arrive with all of their, you know, all of their faculties intact and clear. And, and, and just being able to have a tool. So every time something difficult happens, my life I turned to writing I just immediately turned to writing now. And so it's an it's a tool for healing in that way. I mean, it is number one, my tool for healing.

Josh Meeder: 34:28

In correspondingly I feel the there's such a high level high baseline that you will have anxiety within our society it I think it's on unprecedented levels, and in the healing circles in work that I do, not only with the coaching, but in the other other realms. I've seen that where people are so anxious, and they're concerned about feeling unsafe, and it's such a trap and just to share a little bit of my perspective and see if you concur is the unfeeling unsafe is a trap that holds them in the place. So it's I don't feel safe taking a risk to leave my job to start a business. I don't feel safe. What if I write a book and it's failed? Or what if I hurt someone's feeling? Or what if it doesn't work out? It's like this all unsafe, and they're like, Why can't start because I'm not safe. When there's actually a subtle shift to actually you're uncomfortable. And the unsafe pneus is what, you know, kind of the psychobabble in theory, well, we got to feel safe. We got to do this. No, it's like actually growth comes through sometimes through being uncomfortable. And how can you guide someone to see the difference, but then to realize that once you feel uncomfortable, and you've moved through it, that discomfort is pretty much gone. And you can go to a next next level, but it's that first step or to to get someone out of feeling unsafe into realizing that it's a discomfort. Do you see that in your writers? And how do you address that if it does come up?

Frankie Rollins: 36:05

I mean, all the time. That's the fear actually, that I think I was talking about it first. And, you know, the thing is that safety is, and this actually goes back to the pandemic too. It's, it's an illusion, most of the time anyways, right? Though, the Buddhist precept that change is the most essential quality of life. Like, that's why people hate change, because it feels so uncomfortable. But, and it is true. When you start putting something on the paper, you're exposing your thoughts, right, you're exposing your ideas, you're, you're hoping someday to contact someone to reach someone with your writing. And it is I am a risk taker by nature. Just that's that is who I am. That's part of why I was able to make this great change for my own life, saved my own life, honestly. And so what I do, almost more than talking someone through that, I just, I model it and I take them through it, I take a show them what it is like for them to write I give people prompts all the time that they have to write to maybe they have five minutes, maybe they have 10 minutes in their life. And then they do it. And then they do it. And then they become more accustomed to it. And they realized that it's a way of shortcutting all the overthinking we do in our brain, and they can access something more pure and authentic from themselves. So I really like just starting just modeling how to just start is part of is the real truth. Wait, wait for it.

Josh Meeder: 37:42

I love that and we need we need more of that more of the risk taking more of the taking chances. Because writing something down on paper will probably never cause you any physical harm. You know, I think it's probably probably a safe bet that you could try it just like

Frankie Rollins: 37:59

crumple it up. No one has to see it. I used to be afraid that I would die when my terrible first draft was there and the people would think that was the best I could do. And then I just realized how what what an elaborate neuroses I had created.

Josh Meeder: 38:18

It's very enjoyable, you can write a story about that one of your fairy tales, everything. Well, Frankie, thank you for sharing. It's, it's a great story. And I'm really excited for what you're creating and your students. If, if you're interested in learning more about what Frankie shared the you will find her website and how to contact her in all the show notes. And then the comments here. And on closing, like, is there anything else you'd like to send the audience off with before we conclude?

Frankie Rollins: 38:50

I just I, I just want them to move forward in an authentic way that feels good to them. That's what I want for them. And whatever, whatever form that takes if it's creative, or if it's just on a daily basis, you have permission to be yourself.

Josh Meeder: 39:07

I love that. So there you have it, listeners, everyone has permission to be themselves to find their joy, to find their bliss to confront what's uncomfortable and continue the growth pattern.

Frankie Rollins: 39:18

Yeah.

Josh Meeder: 39:19

So thanks again, Frankie. Thanks for tuning in and look forward to the next episode coming out shortly.

Frankie Rollins: 39:26

Thank you for this beautiful conversation, Josh. I appreciate it.