The Great Things LLC Podcast

Shane Stoehr: Journeyman Hammocks Get Off The Ground, It's Better Up Here!

February 23, 2021 Shane Stoehr Season 2 Episode 1
The Great Things LLC Podcast
Shane Stoehr: Journeyman Hammocks Get Off The Ground, It's Better Up Here!
Chapters
The Great Things LLC Podcast
Shane Stoehr: Journeyman Hammocks Get Off The Ground, It's Better Up Here!
Feb 23, 2021 Season 2 Episode 1
Shane Stoehr

Shane Stoehr is an avid traveler, outdoor enthusiast and product designer.    The Journeyman Hammock Camp and Adventure Kit are the result of tens of thousands of miles traveled, countless nights in nature and years of development.    The Journeyman Hammock Camp is a complete and fully integrated camping solution that is perfect for anyone that travels, camps or just is tired of sleeping on the hard ground.  

In this episode, Shane and I discuss the evolution of the JHC system from an idea born out of necessity to a camping solution available to all.  

This is also a personal story.   Shane and his partner, Kim, are dear friends.   We meet several years ago and instantly connected.   Kim is also a major part of my company, Great Things LLC.  Kim is an incredibly talented writer, yogi, coach, researcher and marketing wizard.   

I was introduced to the Journeyman Hammock two years ago at the Great Rhythm Revival at the Heron Farm and Events Center in Sherman New York.  Shane was hosting his “Hanger’s Grove” workshop where he educated people on the hammock camping lifestyle.   I bought my hammock that day and have never slept in the ground since!   It has fundamentally changed how I camp and travel.    

The Hammock is comfortable, versatile and sets up in under 5 minutes.    With a 360° bug net, thermal under quilt, infinitely adjustable anchor straps and a canopy that closes, it is an all season, all weather camping godsend.   I’ve slept in the hammock from 85° to freezing night and been very content.  

Journeymanhammocks.com will be launched very soon.    The website was built by Kim and I.  We are both very proud of that and I am ecstatic to be a part of this revolutionary product and company.   Check out the website and learn more.    This is a must of any outdoorsmen, traveler, nature lover or recreation seeker.

Show Notes Transcript

Shane Stoehr is an avid traveler, outdoor enthusiast and product designer.    The Journeyman Hammock Camp and Adventure Kit are the result of tens of thousands of miles traveled, countless nights in nature and years of development.    The Journeyman Hammock Camp is a complete and fully integrated camping solution that is perfect for anyone that travels, camps or just is tired of sleeping on the hard ground.  

In this episode, Shane and I discuss the evolution of the JHC system from an idea born out of necessity to a camping solution available to all.  

This is also a personal story.   Shane and his partner, Kim, are dear friends.   We meet several years ago and instantly connected.   Kim is also a major part of my company, Great Things LLC.  Kim is an incredibly talented writer, yogi, coach, researcher and marketing wizard.   

I was introduced to the Journeyman Hammock two years ago at the Great Rhythm Revival at the Heron Farm and Events Center in Sherman New York.  Shane was hosting his “Hanger’s Grove” workshop where he educated people on the hammock camping lifestyle.   I bought my hammock that day and have never slept in the ground since!   It has fundamentally changed how I camp and travel.    

The Hammock is comfortable, versatile and sets up in under 5 minutes.    With a 360° bug net, thermal under quilt, infinitely adjustable anchor straps and a canopy that closes, it is an all season, all weather camping godsend.   I’ve slept in the hammock from 85° to freezing night and been very content.  

Journeymanhammocks.com will be launched very soon.    The website was built by Kim and I.  We are both very proud of that and I am ecstatic to be a part of this revolutionary product and company.   Check out the website and learn more.    This is a must of any outdoorsmen, traveler, nature lover or recreation seeker.

Welcome to the great things llc podcast i'm your host Josh Meeder all right friends, welcome back it is 2021 and i'm back on my podcast after a little bit of break and i am excited to introduce the guest today uh he's been a friend for a couple years and happens to have created one of the most life-changing products in my life so like to welcome Shane Stoehr. He is with journeyman hammocks and we're gonna go into the story. So Shane, you, and your partner Kim, and i have been friends for a couple years i know you have traveled and you're an absolute people person and i also know you don't shy away from a challenge or an opportunity to just jump headfirst into the unknown. so just share, I mean you've traveled across the country multiple times you've done it in vans you've done it on motorcycles i mean you've been everywhere it's been a good time so the traveling across the country part is was really important to me and it started out with my daughter actually when she was getting ready to graduate high school and we had talked about doing this for a while and you know she was getting older the end of high school was coming near she was going to have a lot of different you know things buying for her time when she graduated high school and so her senior year it was like well this is we do it now or never so we talked about planning it and we talked about planning it for quite a while but we never did the biggest the closest thing we did to planning is we bought a van, we got an atlas and it was the day of our departure that we decided well i guess we're going to fall we're going to follow 70 we're going to follow 80 we're going to follow 90. what route are we going to take across the country that's as much planning as we did now fortunately Tyler had gotten i taught her how to uh read and navigate by map pretty well i still wasn't um this was around what this is like 2000, oh 10 maybe i'm not sure navigation and a little bit of gps and i didn't trust it right i still i hadn't really wasn't really trusting the gps too much and you know the map was still the way to go and it was important that Tyler had that skill set too so we do this we set up this trip it's fantastic we our very first night overnight in the van wasn't the best. We we picked a kind of a crappy location you know it was sort of a it's just we hadn't figured hadn't gotten into our groove yet, but before too long we were finding wonderful places to set up uh the trip was a blast we traveled all the way across through the midwest Colorado into utah passing all the way through to cap to up into Oregon and then we took one down through California, before Tyler ended up at her final stop which was in San Diego at a family's place now she flew back from San Diego, which afforded me the opportunity to go solo in the van back across and i think it was it was there that it really clicked for me because now here i am by myself this is this is a long trip across country by myself and i end up meeting all these interesting people right because i'm not staying in hotels or or anything like that i've got my van i'm self-contained i'm going to cool spots and i'm looking for campsites that when i wake up in the morning it's going to be a beautiful experience it's going to really help me set the pace for the day and as a result i'm running into other people who are doing similar things people from all over the world folks i mean i had not i had no frame of reference i didn't know what to expect but you know if i thought you know when i thought it would be cool to set up find a wild hot springs out in the middle of a desert and set up camp i thought you know maybe i'll be by myself out here in the middle of the desert often times i was sometimes i wasn't and those experience with the people who were there really helped shape uh my love for it you know it's amazing how if people haven't had an opportunity to do that cross-country drive uh it is an experience we're so used to the convenience you hop on the plane you get to your destination you get a thing but there is so much in those quiet times those long stretches and the people you meet along the road are some of the most you know impactful and meaningful connections so uh for those of you who haven't done it i would definitely suggest make a trip and i love how you guys plan that's kind of how i plan i have a i have a departure date i have a relatively firm return date and have some sort of idea in between and really leaving it open to kind of the mystery and just to trust that you're going to be taken care of is great so that spurred a lot of travel and i know you've been across the country on on bikes and camped out a bite on motorcycles and different vehicles and uh there's too many stories to go into and they're all great stories people if you get a chance you'll probably see Shane out there sit down with them uh you will not stop laughing and you will have a great experience there but let's fast forward a little bit so now you're doing some product engineering and you've done some some contract work you've done some of your own and now the hammock how does the hammock come come to the forefront and how has it developed since then well you know the hammock store is pretty pretty interesting so it was i'd set up that product i'd set up a product design company called journeyman products that's how it all started and i had a cross-country tour that was based on and at this point i picked up my i picked up a nice bmw motorcycle and i was traveling across the country hitting a series of events and i didn't want to carry a lot of gear with me and i also wanted to be comfortable so i had to think a lot about what my camp situation was going to be because on a motorcycle you know you can carry a fair amount of gear but still pretty limited compared to the van right and another factor came into play is that i don't like to sleep on the ground it's uncomfortable okay there are a lot of different issues with tent camping um it's dirty uh you get wet and most most important it's just hard on it was hard on my back and so that's how i discovered hammock camping so on that first trip i was actually going to you know i was promoting journeyman products and at the same time i didn't even realize what i was doing exactly but i was i i'd started with this basic hammock camp kit that i had assembled from you know a motley crew of pieces and i was refining it as i went and i was doing that to suit my own needs i wasn't really thinking about it too much i was focused on this other thing i was gonna i was going to do these other things at these other events well by the time you know i i got to the furthest point that i was traveling in the country which was over in Arizona i'd really gotten this thing down and i discovered a lot of things that weren't available or that weren't good and i had a pretty good setup and when i got to that event people started talking to me about and they were asking me questions and they were you know curious about how i was traveling by motorcycle and how you know how my hammock camp you know developed the way it did because it was a little different than everybody else's and so that got me thinking this is this is something you know it's a good conversation piece people really like this and i just keep making it better and better and people continue to ask me about it now and so it occurred to me this works really well for me and people seem to like it i should do something with this this is this is a product that i could offer to people and help get people into a more comfortable camping situation so they can travel the way that they want to do as well you know not everybody wants to travel by motorcycles some people want to travel all the back of a car some people you know have different methods of of their conveyance but this hammock camp can be taken on any of them because it's compact it has all the features features that you need to be comfortable and it's all you know it's all reasonably priced it's it's a wonderful thing and it gets people up off the ground you know up off of that hard ground into a nice supported comfortable warm environment where you can just rest and relax and you know that's the that's the best thing in the worst thing about the hammock camp experience right i mean it's so comfortable that it's hard to get out of i i hear you and uh i where you exposed me to the uh um the hammock camp was uh you know we were at a festival and you were doing a demonstration on it now this is fast forwarded a couple years and i've been an active camper and you know tent camped i've gone all over i've been close to the arctic circle i've been all around and you're right uh tent camping has its advantages and disadvantages more disadvantages and in the hard round you know even the most experienced campers sometimes you set it up in the wrong place and you don't see the water run off or and uh you you did your demonstration and i tried it out and i bought a kit right on the spot because i'm like oh my god this is i can tell this it was great it was comfortable but the the ease and the convenience and the first night i slept in it i'm like i am never ever sleeping on the ground again it was the best sleep and people don't think about that because they you know hammocks typically they think bananas and that's not how we'll get into a little bit of why it works so well but what i was really impressed with was the absolute thoroughness and thoughtfulness of every tiny little component in there so i mean it really shows that it wasn't put together by someone behind a desk it was put together in the field and it developed out of a natural usage and rhythm so let's go into let's talk a little bit about the hammock specific why it is so different because there's a lot of hammocks you can see out there but yours does a couple things so why don't we go through some of the components of what your hammock brings to the camping experience okay sure so to have a good hammock camp you need three things okay you need that the hammock body itself the bed you want and some sort of insulation layer below you and then you need a shelter above those are the three major components of a hammock camp and that can be accomplished in a myriad of ways but having a a base kit where you can try it out and get comfortable and have a solid first experience from the beginning that was the goal right when i was you know on that first that first motorcycle trip when i really started to develop the hammock camp i went through uh all kinds of different iterations i tried i tried all kinds of things i tried sleeping pads inside the hammock i tried makeshift under quilts i tried different types of tarps for the shelter system i tried using bug nets no bug nets ridge lines no ridge lines i tried i mean i tried all kinds of things and over successive trips i continued to experiment i continued to refine and i came and i finally settled on a system that is that meets you know 99 of the criteria that that i needed and that i think most people would need for the kind of for you know for traveling so for those that aren't watching here on youtube and are joining us on the podcast um i'd like to kind of direct from the the setup of the camp hammock because and we can go through each of the components because there's so much thought in it i mean one not only is it incredibly comfortable and lightweight but it takes literally five minutes to set up one of the first things i noticed was the ease of setup from a location because i think he said it's like a minimum of 13 feet distance up to 20 something if you have two trees or two poles with this wide distance even the thoughtfulness of the strapping systems you're using are so quick release and they hook onto the hammock and then you have this hammock that isn't affected by the distance of the anchor points because the ridgeline so i wanted to have you talk a little bit about explain what the ridge line and why that works and for those that might not be into the hammock camping yet uh a little bit about the under quilt and why uh an uninsulated no under quilt hammock you can't sleep on because you're actually you know exposed to temperature change in hypothermia so you know starting from the trees in let's kind of just walk through how this system works all right sure sure all right that sounds good you know the best thing and i would recommend everybody who can to come to an event and have a live demonstration that way you can see everything in action you can touch it you can feel it you can experience it most places i try to set up a situation where there's an overnight option so you can actually sleep in it for a night and try it for yourself and see if it's really the right thing for you but when we talk about it there's there's all kinds of features that come into play and josh you're 100 right having having the right set up every time is is critical but having the right trees or the right distance or the whatever your anchor points are going to be they're not always going to be perfect every time so what i started with is a suspension system okay that's the part that connects to the anchors and to then to the hammock that is on a slide all right some there are different kinds of suspension out there there are daisy chain loops there are ropes and things like that and they all have their pros and their cons but the slide system gives you an infinite level of adjustment as from as tight as you can get to the max to uh you know a distance away and the hammock the hammock itself is about 12 feet long so you really don't want anything i say the ideal distance is about 16 feet between okay but you can go anywhere from 13 to you know 20 or 20 feet or so based on the the length of the straps so you've got some variability there that you can work with now the hammock itself for those of you who who you know when you think of a hammock you think of like a a backyard hammock that's a mesh you know rope style or if you think or if you're maybe you're familiar with the eno style hammock that is a parachute material that's you know real simple those kinds of hammocks when you set them up how how much sag they have or how tight they are is based on your suspension system and that can be a problem especially if you're dealing with this variability in trees because if you you don't want your hammock pulled too tight because then it's unstable you know and you have a tendency to not well just it's just not very safe and you don't want to be super loose either because then you end up being scrunched in the ball or you're you know you're butt scraping the ground so what we do with the journeyman hammock is we include a what's called a ridge line all right and the ridgeline is a structural element so what that allows us to do is when we put up the hammock straps and the suspension straps and we tighten them up it doesn't tighten the hammock body itself it tightens the ridge line and so every time you set up the hammock regardless of the distance of the trees the hammock body itself is going to be exactly the same that way you're insured to have a nice quality good night's rest and by doing that by controlling the distance of the hammock uh the sway of the hammock you've been able to really engineer how um how the how it stays in the same form and what people until you're right when they see you at an event and can actually experience it people think of hammock like is a curved surface and you're sleeping like a banana but what i've found and what you've you've shown me is when you sleep at an angle and it stretches the material to where it's a flatter sleeping surface to the point that i've even been able to sleep on my side comfortably and you'd you don't get that sway of a typical hammock right yeah that's critical you're right you're absolutely right again the a lot of people right they think about that and that's just uh their experience you know nobody nobody was there to show them how to how to do it right but if you if you just instead of running with the the you know the length of the hammock if you just kick your head over to the side your feet over to the opposite side get yourself that diagonal lay it really allows you to lay flat and so that you can do that you can pretty much sleep in any position except for maybe on your stomach you know it's it's not quite there but on your side you can roll around i move around a lot in my sleep and i really appreciate being able to to be at that angle or to lay on my side or to pull my legs in or whatever i need to do um and it really opens up the hammock too it gives you there's a lot more space than than what it might originally you know at first seen yeah i found it extraordinarily comfortable in fact like some of the best night's sleep now i keep it in my trunk with me anywhere i go and if i have the choice i'm sleeping in the trees rather than on someone's couch um good friend of mine josh lives over um east of here and i went to visit him uh he just moved into a new place and he has this sort of like annex on the back of his garage and uh he was like if you want to sleep in there that would you know you're perfectly welcome to do that when i went to visit and i was like all right that's great and he's like yeah he's like yeah cool come on over bring your hammer kit and i was like well you have me sleeping inside and he's like yeah i put up some anchor points man you can set up your hand i can do the whole thing and i was like man you know me well yeah now that's a good good friend yes so once you get in the uh the hammock system um one of the other benefits is the ridgeline creates a a top point so there is a 360 degree bug net uh that's really easy to get in and out of so you're you're insect free but one of the things uh and we'll move on to the under quilt and why that's so important um i've been in your your hammock from the 80s and 90s down into the 30s and i've been comfortable so in addition to the ability to lay flat um and and the ridgeline does create the structure to hold up the 360 degree zipping bug net which you can pull in or out which is fantastic i love that uh there's even the thoughtfulness and this is why i love the design even have a pocket that you can hold your glasses or a flashlight on the ridgeline so everything's really thoughtful in the way it's uh laid out but the the comfort comes into effect because of the material and the under quilting and i've been in your hammock from the 80s and 90s down into the 30s and i've been comfortable with the um with the right uh layering so why is it so different and what what do you do with what is an under quilt that makes all the difference in handbook camping yeah you hit on a couple good good features there josh the the bug net you know it's it completely zips off it has its own pocket it can store it or you can leave it on either way and the bug nut actually serves two purposes too you know it obviously helps keep bugs out but it also um because of the mesh also helps trap a little bit of extra heat inside which is which is a nice feature the material the hammock is a real nice uh soft rip stop nylon and it's it's lightweight it's it's got good support it doesn't you know have a lot of stretch to it so when you when you're in it it feels very supportive right but it's still soft and um i dare say a little luxurious and i would agree 100 yeah so with so and that's all good by itself right the under quilt is really the key component because what happens is if you need some sort of insulation up for your backside if you don't have that the thin material the hammock isn't enough to keep you warm but if you're going to sleep in it overnight if you're going to get you know be serious about camping in a hammock it's it's uncomfortable you get that the air even if it's even if it's not windy the air is just moving underneath you creates that convection and it it will make you cold even though even if it's 90 degrees out at night if you're down in louisiana somewhere okay or you know on the the fringes of uh texas or something like that it's it's still gonna make it you're still going to lose that body heat so the under quilt provides that layer of insulation that just traps that warm pocket and it's you're right i mean you say 80 to 90 degrees i've been i've used it in some really warm weather and people ask me they say well if it's really hot out would you use the underquilt and the answer is always yes always because it doesn't matter how warm it is you got to keep that pocket of air that cocoons you and it's and on that pocket of air i think that's a key differential because a lot of people say okay well i could just put a sleeping pad down on the bottom but the underquilt actually has a few inches of space so it's a it's a quilted material and that that air is what's doing the insulation right right yep if you you anything if you put a sleeping bag or a sleeping pad inside your hammock the sleeping pad the sleeping bag is going to compress and when it compresses it loses its insulation value most of its insulation value whereas with the underquilt it hangs down below and it lofts right it gives you that nice pocket that this trap that traps it in there and it doesn't go anywhere that's what keeps you warm having a sleeping pad inside the hammock is a different approach and it just doesn't work out very well sleeping pads aren't designed for hammocks they squirm around if you move in your sleep they move and it just it doesn't support well right you know yeah and that's a key key component like you said because a lot of different people will try that they're like oh i'm a cold in the bottom so i'll throw in a pad well it's not the same and as you mentioned uh compression of a sleeping bag they lose all their thermal insulation so the and and you're the way you described it the experience was the same as i had the heat didn't matter you know it just kept it kept it at a nice temperature and i wouldn't i don't see any reason why to take that off um and then finally for the uh you know like with the with the camp we do it is you can remove it like in the if you needed to clean it or something like that you could take it off but it's integrated into the whole system and that is one of the things that makes uh one of the key differences in our system than from other people's system is it the whole the whole hammock and the under quilt it the ridgeline it's all set up it all fits together the whole thing stuffs into a stuff sack so whenever you go to setup you just set that you just set up the entire bed the whole thing is all ready to go there's no there's not a lot of fussing around with setting up a hammock and then setting a ridge line and then separately connecting an under quilt you don't have to do any of that it's already set up for you just right out of the bag it i can't say enough good about it um and that kind of leads on to the other things like you really have thought of everything through this so even the tarping system so a lot of people think you know the a-frame tarp well you have the ability to close the end so i've slept in weather where it's blowing sideways and water doesn't get in we'll talk a little bit about that even the lightweight stakes that you have included they are they're so easy to use all the lines all the guidelines are are there they're in the kit they're ready to go they're pre-measured and i love the fact that you have the ones with the high visibility reflective gear so when you're coming back at night you're not tripping over them so there's just so many things until you get it but the thoughtfulness of that is um there so let's talk a little bit about the canopy because you know it creates a great cover you can close it and you've also shown me that you can on in summer nights even set it up as an awning with a couple poles yeah the shelter itself is is a wonderful part of the whole thing and it can be used to stand alone you know it has its own suspension system and and that was also key too there's a couple different iterations where the shelter system was integrated with the hammock and that has certain applications but a lot of times when i would find myself traveling you know the weather i can't control the weather sometimes it's sometimes it's beautiful sometimes it's rainy and so if i have to set up in the camp when it's when it's wet what i don't want to do is i don't want to set up my bed and then set the shelter up over top of that because my bed's getting wet the whole time the kept this up the suspension system for the shelter separate the the entire shelter can be set up and it can be set up with the ends open so that you know you get the airflow if it's going to be a warmer breezy night if it's going to be stormy and you want a little more protection you can close in each end they're called doors so the the shelter has doors and if it's going to be really stormy you can close in both ends and buckle it up really tight there are the anchors to the ground the guidelines that attach to the anchors are all pre-cut to so you don't have a lot of extra slack laying around or have to do anything crazy you just you get set up you set your anchors you attach you adjust and you're good to go it's it's quick it's painless i've tried to take most of the thinking out of it for uh for you you know the shelter itself is waterproof it's lightweight it packs small and it's colored green and i picked the color green because i'm outside sleep if i'm if you're choosing to sleep outside the story i tell myself is you're probably a lot like me i'm sleeping outside because i want to be out in nature i want to be experiencing the weather i want to feel the air i want to notice the temperature changes i want to wake up and i want to see trees or whatever the landscape is around me and so the green shelter is the right color for most places uh most places especially here on the east coast it does blend in and that element is nice you know so it doesn't disturb you know other people's experience of the outdoors but when when you wake up inside of that shelter and you know the morning sun is starting to come in and it illuminates that fabric it just feels natural it feels good it's it's invigorating it gets me excited about getting out and getting started on whatever exciting thing i'm gonna do for that day whatever the adventure will be but then if you have a set of poles you can actually set up what they call what we call porch mode and uh i like i like porch mode because i can put a couple chairs a small table it's an inviting uh inviting place at like a festival or something like that for people to come over and chat that's nice and uh the final thing on on your your product line is you have the adventure kit which just takes it a little bit further i'll i'll let you describe the kit and then i'll describe my experience with it because you gave me some great uh tips on how to use it and what i found uh really helpful with the the adventure kit yup so the standard journeyman hammock camp comes with everything you need it comes with the the hammock bed with the integrated underquilt and bug net and also the shelter and all the guy lines all the anchors the suspension systems everything you need the adventure kit is the next step up so it includes the journeyman hammock camp but it also comes in this convenient 35 liter dry bag it's heavy duty it fits everything that it fits the entire camp in with room to spare so now you have additional room in there for your sleeping bag and even some sleeping clothes i get my sleeping clothes and a sleeping pillow and i like to have an eye bag too you know i put all that stuff inside this roll it tight it's waterproof it's i chose this particular bag for this kit because it will withstand minor submersion so it can be good for kayaking canoeing i strap it onto the back of the motorcycle it's out in the elements and under storms it keeps everything dry and it's just it's a wonderful piece of kit just to keep everything all included yeah in addition it's a dry bag but it's a dry bag backpack it's a solid built piece of gear and you're right everything is so compact in there with enough room to spare and what i found is because it is waterproof um and submersible like you can throw it anywhere but from the actual use of it it becomes a part of my camping experience so once the kit or the the hammock camp is set the bag is empty and i typically like to sleep less less clothes than normal so um at night you don't want to leave your clothes out because you'll get dew and moisture or bugs or stuff so i found it a really convenient way when when i'm getting ready for camp i'll strip down my shorts and i put all my clothes right back in the bag roll it up and leave it on the ground there so when i wake up my clothes are dry secure and bug free and they're they're not as cool from the night because the bag ax actually insulates it so i love the fact that it's actually an extension of the camping uh process for me yeah that's awesome i mean that's a great use scenario right there yep the bag is is you have all that extra space you can pull whatever you want into it when it once your camp is all set up yup you can set it on the ground you can clip it onto the suspension some people like to keep it underneath the shelter attached right there to not to the ridge line but right where the carabiners attach to the suspension that's a good option too you've got you can do whatever you want with it it is wonderful now in addition to the bag the adventure kit also comes with a separate set of ground anchors so the the hammock kit the shelter comes with uh these really high quality uh triple fin aluminum stakes which are nice and light they're good and stiff they drive into the ground relatively easily but the adventure kit comes with a spiral ground stake that offers just a little bit more bite and some of those more sandy type environments you know where you just need a little bit more and uh so that really opens up kind of all terrains yeah and the thing i've noticed i really i really love those tri-fin aluminum stakes but you probably really do need a hammer or some sort of tool i've tried them with with rocks and that works but there is the chance you can damage them with those ground spikes they can go into anything and you don't need to carry any tools and they're just as light so it is neat how you have some versatility with that so i i have mine in two small different bags and it depends on which camping environment that i'm going with so that's a great description and and if you can't tell from the excitement in my voice this literally has changed my life in camping it it's fantastic you gotta check it out now shane um there's some exciting things coming up so where is uh journeyman hammocks right now what's coming up what do you look forward to in the next year well we're looking forward to the launch of a new website here coming up soon that's going to be really great um we're going to do some be doing some blogging and we're going to be compiling compiling some resources to help people really get the most out of their camping experience especially when it comes to hammock camping i will be putting those resources together in a newsletter that will be coming out you know sign up for that we're going to be trying to get out to events this year you know last year the events were pretty few and far between so uh this year we're gonna be doing a lot more hopefully hopefully things open up in a you know a little bit more so that we can get out there and and really talk to people because that is that is a big component of it is is meeting people going to these events talking to them through you know that education component is really important and i think just like you you had said josh for for a lot of people you know seeing and trying is really believing so that's where we're looking forward to getting out and getting some more adventures on the road here this this spring summer and fall i'm excited for you to get out there i i'm excited to see your website uh simply because i'm working on it and shane's partner kim is working on it kim and i have been working together uh at great things and she is an absolute incredible talent from writing copy writing graphic design marketing and just about anything else she puts her mind to uh one of my favorite people so i love these two together but shane do you want to talk a little bit because uh this system is is robust it is durable it is all the outdoors things but it is not uncomfortable you had a lot of feedback in input through this uh from from women in the circle and in the community that uh contributed or what have been some of the feedback from from the fair sex in their experience with it sure absolutely yeah women have been involved in the development of this product for since almost the beginning right um actually some of the first the first people who asked me about the hammock while is traveling were women and as it turns out it's the comfort aspect of it is really important to them um not just from a standpoint of the the hammock bed being comfortable but also the fact that they're up off the ground they don't have to worry about bugs they don't have to worry about the dirt they don't have to worry that if it rains that they're going to wake up in the middle of a puddle right they're going to stay high and dry and comfy but in addition to that the temperature regulation is really fascinating and important for women too where you know some women like end up sleeping really really warm and so they are able to adjust that much more easily by being up off the ground another aspect that women really like about it is the ability to close in the ends of the shelter to create you know to use those doors in order to create that level of privacy too great so uh we'll be on the lookout uh the website should be up in soft launch here pretty soon and i know you're hitting the road so for those of you out there check out uh the website it'll be enclosed in the description uh keep an eye out for shane and his travels uh shane any last words uh before we go here i encourage everybody to get up off the ground okay and it's just it's just better it's better up here yeah it is better i mean there's nothing more to say it is the greatest greatest camping uh discovery i have made in a long time so uh shane uh thanks for being on i look forward to seeing you again here soon my friend and uh hopefully this year uh you might see shane and i doing some shots from the road on our motorcycle so i did get a motorcycle and i've been inspired by shane so i'm going to travel with the expert rather than learn the lessons myself awesome so looking forward to it thanks josh this has been a lot of fun and i'm looking forward the next time we can get together and uh and toss a couple back and chew the fat we'll do that all right thanks everyone we'll talk to 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